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"...if anyone makes the assistance of grace depend on the humility or obedience of man and does not agree that it is a gift of grace itself that we are obedient and humble, he contradicts the Apostle who says, "What have you that you did not receive?" (1 Cor. 4:7), and, "But by the grace of God I am what I am" (1 Cor. 15:10). (Council of Orange: Canon 6)

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  • « Book Review: The Expository Genius of John Calvin. By Dr. Steven Lawson | Main | John Calvin Goes to the Hawaiian Islands »

    The facts of history and the "secret place"

    Interesting interchange between a man called Keith Moore and Dr. James White (taken from the www.aomin.org website)

    Dr. White, if you understood how much you are loved by Roman Catholics in spite of your misled ramblings regarding our beliefs, you would go into your secret place and ask Jesus what He would have you do and say instead of assuming what He would have you do and say. I say this from experience and from a very serious concern for your eternal soul. In His Mercy, Keith Moore

    Mr. Moore:

    Yes, I've truly been feeling the love from Mark Shea and Dave Armstrong and the rest of those who have been sending me their "love." But, like those folks, Mr. Moore, you speak of "misled ramblings." Now, I find it odd, and maybe you should as well, that the folks who continually say this are the same ones who will never, ever expose themselves to the tough task of proving their accusations. I mean, it is so easy to accuse me of ignorance and the like, but, I've done nearly three dozen live, moderated, public debates with leading Roman Catholic apologists. Wouldn't it be rather obvious that I've missed the boat in those contexts? Couldn't these well trained, knowledgable men demonstrate my many errors?

    So I have to ask, what is it about a "secret place" that can change the facts of history and the truths of the Bible into their opposites? If I go into my "secret place," will the fact that there was no single bishop in Rome until the middle of the second century go away? Will the fact that Ignatius, when writing to the church at Rome at the beginning of the second century, did not make any reference to the bishop of Rome, disappear? Will evidence that someone, anyone, in the first five centuries of the church, believed what Rome teaches today about Mary, suddenly appear there in my secret place? Will the Pornocracy and the Babylonian Captivity of the Church disappear? Will the text of the Bible change in my secret place, so that I no longer possess, already, peace, having been justified by faith (Romans 5:1)?

    Will the statement that Jesus' death perfects those for whom it was made be altered, in my secret place, to where Jesus' repetitive, non-perfecting, non-saving sacrifice, represented repeatedly upon Roman altars, will always leave me uncertain, imperfect, liable to suffering in purgatory, and even to eternal death should I die in mortal sin? And what really frightens me, Keith, is if I go to this secret place of which you speak, will Christ lose His ability to save, perfectly, without fail, every single one given to Him by the Father (John 6:38-39)? If so, to be honest, Keith---I will stick with the revealed Word of God. I invite you to flee any place, secret or otherwise, that keeps you from knowing the truth.

    Posted by John Samson on May 8, 2007 07:01 PM

    Comments

    one of the best exchanges that underscores Scripture:::>

    Pro 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest you be like him yourself.
    Pro 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own eyes.

    Thanks as it helps us all sharpen our senses with TRUTH!

    Thank you for this post. Though it is nearly 2 1/2 years old at this point, it was timely for me as I sought information on Mr. Moore before viewing his teachings. It is troubling, indeed, to know there are huge numbers of Catholic followers, considering the numerous false teachings they endure week after week. Just recently I attended a Catholic funeral, during which the priest made this pronouncement:

    "As long as you love to the best of your ability, you will be saved. That is what we believe."

    I sat there incredulous, though 2 Tim. 4:3-4 should have prepared me.

    Sometime back a woman I knew tried hard to "convert me." Before long I was engaged in dialogue with her priest via email. After numerous exchanges where distinctives of the church were met by plain scripture, he wrote back. "The problem is, you have only the Bible, while we have tradition."

    I answered pointing him to Matt. 15 and Mark 7. I never received a reply.

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