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  • « Irresistible Grace | Main | Meet Fireman Jones »

    John Macarthur - USA Abandoned by God

    Posted by John on April 29, 2009 03:20 PM

    Comments

    Good stuff!, but get rid of the new age music in the background.

    Todd,

    that ain't New Age man, that is music directly piped in from heaven. :)

    For anyone who is interested here are the original MP3s to the sermons without the bamboo flutes:

    Abandoned by God Part 1
    http://webmedia.gty.org/sermons/High/45-14.mp3

    Abandoned by God Part 2
    http://webmedia.gty.org/sermons/High/45-15.mp3

    Why are Baptists such individualists about the church but nationalists about God's dealings?

    But it makes people feel better to condemn sinners "out there" rather than deal with the sinners "in here." A sermon condemning "culture" is easy. Bad culture! Bad! Why aren't you as without sin as the church?

    Jared,

    We all justly deserve God's wrath and condemnation. That is a given for the gospel. But for the grace of God no one, not me, not anyone in the church lives. We are not saved because we are more moral than anyone. No, the Scripture plainly teaches, rather, that it is God's mercy alone to us which saves. No hope save in Christ's mercy alone. No hope in our own morality or self-sufficiency. MacArthur would be the first to acknowledge this, but he is merely pointing out, as Romans 1 does, that there is a point in which God gives an entire culture over to sin, thus abandoning it. That although they know God's decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but approve of those who practice them. The church is not immune either, as MacArthur pointed out. Judgment starts here. There is no doubt the church itself in this country is suffering the same fate. So MacArhur hit the target in my estimation.

    I am speechless.

    I want to post these verses and ask for some words on "His Power" and ask for direction to His Power. The whole creation groans with the weight of this curse!!

    It makes no sense to me unless we can have our eyes "healed" and our ears "healed".

    Gen 12:3 I will bless those who bless you, and him who dishonors you I will curse, and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed."


    What seems to me to be missing is the Power of God manifesting more in line with what He has promised, "and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed."

    Paul reveals the curse. It seems appropriate to cite his words here in light of this video and the cutting message that comes from it!

    1Co 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,
    1Co 6:10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
    1Co 6:11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
    1Co 6:12 "All things are lawful for me," but not all things are helpful. "All things are lawful for me," but I will not be enslaved by anything.
    1Co 6:13 "Food is meant for the stomach and the stomach for food"--and God will destroy both one and the other. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body.
    1Co 6:14 And God raised the Lord and will also raise us up by his power.
    1Co 6:15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take the members of Christ and make them members of a prostitute? Never!
    1Co 6:16 Or do you not know that he who is joined to a prostitute becomes one body with her? For, as it is written, "The two will become one flesh."
    1Co 6:17 But he who is joined to the Lord becomes one spirit with him.
    1Co 6:18 Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body.
    1Co 6:19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own,
    1Co 6:20 for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.

    The word of God is always delivered by His true prophets with redeeming conviction. But that music is hideously demonic.

    Were we more righteous as a nation when white Christian masters were whipping their black slaves almost to death on a regular basis, or fornicating with their women slaves and shipping their own mixed-race children off to live with other masters? (For proof that this happened, read the auto-bio of Frederick Douglass, himself a believer).

    I love the puritans (I have a website dedicated to them -- www.theconventicle.com) but I was appalled to read that on one occasion, one puritan town leader called the slaughter of a particular Indian village 'a pleasing sacrifice' to the Lord.

    Read a textbook on American history, and it will be apparent that our history has been an amazing but often sordid one.

    Before both of the Great Awakenings, ministers were complaining that most people had abandoned religion in the country.

    I am a fan of MacArthur and of the puritans, but this kind of talk perpetuates the lie that we were once a sort-of 'pristine' Christian nation, and that now we're not. We NEVER WERE a Christian nation. There was probably a time when the majority of people in the U.S. claimed to be Christian, but the elect have always been in the minority. And yet, God's grace has ALWAYS shone through, in spite of America's -- humanity's -- pathetic legacy in history.

    Hi Chris

    No one here believes that humanity has any innate redemptitve goodness in them or that the USA was ever a Christian nation. You have got the wrong place :). We affirm that we are lost and deserve nothing but God's wrath for the horrors we ourselves (I myself) have committed.

    I think some are misunderstanding what is being said here. You must remember, John MacArthur is doing an exposition of Romans 1 which speaks of God giving a people over to certian types of sin when the fullness of their sin has been reached. MacArthur is actually the last person to believe in some kind of "Christian nation." He has even written a book with the title, Can Government Save Us? In it, he rejects the notion that we merely need to put in the right laws to make America great again. Only the gospel can change people's hearts, as you know. For a taste of his position on this read his article on The Deadly Dangers of Moralism

    http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/80-257.htm

    Here is a quote from it:
    "Well, let me make a very clear point at the outset here. Morality and religion will not invite or secure the blessing of God. They never have, and they never will. A more moral America, a more moral and religious America, does not advance in divine favor one inch. A more moral and a more religious America will not escape divine judgment, any more than Pharisaic Judaism in Jesus' time escaped the devastating judgment of God in 70 A.D. when hundreds of thousands of Jews were slaughtered by godless Romans. Jesus warned about that on several occasions. There is only one thing God blesses, just one. And that is He blesses saving faith in and love for His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ. That's the only thing He blesses. Anybody who does not believe in and love the Lord Jesus Christ is among the cursed, right?"


    But Rom. 1 does show that a nation can reach a point in which God no longer has patience with it, and it exhibits certain signs. One being giving us over to our own boasted wills.

    Point taken. Thanks for clarifying. I just think it's difficult to tell, from our perspective, when we've reached some sort of 'tipping point' when we're given over to judgment once for all.

    I didn't mind the music, by the way. :). Isn't that from The Passion of the Christ?

    Hi Chris,

    Yes, "once for all" would be difficult to discern and thankfully MacArthur, from what he said, seems to think, by God's grace, we could turn it around. Perhaps Johnny Mac is thinking of abandonment more in line with a temporary discipline which may have the effect of driving people back to Christ or driving them further away.

    As for the music, I have no idea where it is from. I found the entire clip with the music already in it on the web somewhere and embeded it into the post. It was not my doing. :)

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