"...if anyone makes the assistance of grace depend on the humility or obedience of man and does not agree that it is a gift of grace itself that we are obedient and humble, he contradicts the Apostle who says, "What have you that you did not receive?" (1 Cor. 4:7), and, "But by the grace of God I am what I am" (1 Cor. 15:10). (Council of Orange: Canon 6)


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  • « Parable of the Soils is Clear Evidence Against Libertarian Free Will | Main | Debating Predestination, Election and the Will of God »

    Even Arminians Believe that the Natual Man Has No Free Will

    If the natural man has a free will to believe the gospel, then why does he need grace? If his will is naturally free then it would do away with the need for grace altogether. Therefore, anyone who acknowledges that even a LITTLE grace is necessary to believe, by default, acknowledges that man in his natural state has no moral ability to come to Christ. We all know that Jesus himself says (and I quote) "no one can come to Me unless God grants it" (John 6:65) and "the Spirit gives life (quickens) the flesh counts for nothing." (John 6:63). And Paul says " one can say “Jesus is Lord” except in the Holy Spirit." (1 Cor 12:3)

    If you agree with the above statements from the Bible, then by definition, you already agree that man (left to himself) has no free will to come to Christ. You agree that his intentions are so sold to evil ... that his will and affections are under such bondage that he would never come apart from the grace of Christ. Therefore to teach that the natural man has a free will actually overthrows the gospel ... it is precisely because man is in bondage that he needs Christ to set him free." (John 8:34, 36)

    So we have already ESTABLISHED that man has no free will. We all agree on this, EVEN ARMINIANS. The question really is what is the nature of God's grace? Is it effectual or does it merely help the sinner? Jesus answers this in John 6:63 when he declares: "All the the Father gives to me will come to me..."

    Posted by John on April 25, 2013 12:31 PM


    Where does it say in the Bible that man has no free will? Please quote Chapter and verse. I can list a lot of verses where God leaves the final decision to man. A LOT...

    You like to give either/or propositions... When the truth is actually, if you don't believe this, then you must believe (conclude) this. Such tactics wouldn't even hold up in a court of law. It is called, "leading the witness."

    Why do I even waste my time on this site?

    Ever heard of the golden chain of Romans 8?
    Just because God lays down an option does not mean we have free-will but, rather that we have a responsibility to which we are held accountable. I hope to come to find the doctrines of grace.


    God gives an option to which we are held accountable...but we have no free will? Totally irrational. God is not irrational.

    I'll give you a few examples of what I am saying...

    The Fall of the Angels....Options...

    1. God created them evil without any grace. Sorry, impossible for God to make evil.

    2. God created the demons good (with Grace), but they fell anyway? Grace failed!

    3. God created them good (with Grace) but they fell of their own free will.

    Which is it?

    Oh, I forgot, there is no such thing as free will in your theology. So why did they fall? Eagerly awaiting your response.

    Example #2....

    1. If Jesus is who He claims to be, God will save Him.

    2. If He is not, a false prophet is killed.

    (Don't you think that these are the only 2 options presented to Judas by the Pharisees?)

    Another option, not considered ...

    3. He is who He says He is and God permits Him to die.

    You people never consider the 3rd option. Your loss.

    I guess, since no one has responded, that you have been silenced. Thank God!

    Bob, are you " point proving " or genuinely asking?

    Even the most simple of minds can grasp that " cause and effect " negate the possibility of a "free will " in created beings.

    Which leads to the possibility that " free willers ", those that believe in a libertine free will are quite deceived by the wicked one to believe in something that does not exist. And actually believe in a false god of " free will ", whom they for whatever it means try to make the one true God bow to.

    Guess you can't answer the question. Still waiting.

    Many people are greatly offended to know they have no free will. Sorry guys, but only God has free will.

    I think you have to start with a definition of "free will". Man is born with the ability to choose (or will) according to his desires. But, because we are all born with a fallen nature our desire is never for a right relationship with our Creator until or unless we are born again. So to claim that "Calvinists" deny "free will" is a straw man argument. Man is born with a will that is entirely free to act in accordance with his desires. Unfortunately those desires come out of a heart of stone toward his Creator. Only the grace of God can give a man a new heart with new desires upon which his will can now act in a way that pleases God. "Lord command what you will and grant what you command". To God be the glory.

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