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"...if anyone makes the assistance of grace depend on the humility or obedience of man and does not agree that it is a gift of grace itself that we are obedient and humble, he contradicts the Apostle who says, "What have you that you did not receive?" (1 Cor. 4:7), and, "But by the grace of God I am what I am" (1 Cor. 15:10). (Council of Orange: Canon 6)

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  • « "I'm Not Like THEM!" | Main | Top Selling Titles in Sept - Oct 2006 »

    Does clay form itself?

    There is a very interesting discussion regarding election and reprobation over at Dr James White's blog here (see 10/21/06 entry). Is the the non-elect individual "fitted [by God] for destruction" or does he merely fit himself? Read this short article to see a challenge to even the great Spurgeon's remarks on Romans 9 on this subject.

    Posted by John Samson on October 22, 2006 08:46 PM

    Comments

    In James White's piece he includes an item from Don Hartley in which Hartley writes, "Thus we would hold Paul teaches that God elects eternally and unconditionally, that is, based on absolutely no merit actual or forseen in an individual but purely out of his own good pleasure where he arbitrarily chooses some and passes over others." I think the use of the word "arbitrarily" should be avoided since (1)the common uses of "arbitrary" are negative and synergists commonly charge unconditional election as being arbitrary and (2) God has his reasons for his choices for election (Eph. 1:11).

    Other than this observation, White's entire post is a good read.

    My only comment is this:

    We must realize that the ELECTION is the line that brought Him, foreordained before Genesis 1:1, [A more sure Word of Prophesy], to the earth. Even the channels, the Bloodline carriers of this "SEED" are as much in need of His "FINISHED" WORK as Adam, Eve, Cain, Abel, Seth, Noah, Abram, Esau, Judas Iscariot, etc. etc., you and me.

    That's why, I believe, Jesus would and did say this to those that surrounded Him to "CATCH" Him in a Word, which also the Bible teaches He preached to them the Gospel:

    Mar 2:1 And again he entered into Capernaum after some days; and it was noised that he was in the house.
    Mar 2:2 And straightway many were gathered together, insomuch that there was no room to receive them, no, not so much as about the door: and he preached the word unto them.

    The question in my mind is WHAT DID HE PREACH TO THEM?

    See Matthew 22.

    Luke 20:

    Luk 20:39 Then certain of the scribes answering said, Master, thou hast well said.
    Luk 20:40 And after that they durst not ask him any question at all.
    Luk 20:41 And he said unto them, How say they that Christ is David's son?
    Luk 20:42 And David himself saith in the book of Psalms, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
    Luk 20:43 Till I make thine enemies thy footstool.
    Luk 20:44 David therefore calleth him Lord, how is he then his son?


    That same murderous spirit worked during the days of the Acts of the Apostles too:

    Act 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
    Act 5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
    Act 5:31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Savior, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
    Act 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
    Act 5:33 When they heard that, they were cut to the heart, and took counsel to slay them.

    And we too today, when we rise from the fear of man to speak, to teach, to preach entering into Service Fearing God, will have men arise against us taking counsel to slay us.

    Jesus said: IF THEY HATED ME, THEY WILL HATE YOU TOO.

    Isn't it well then to heed Peter's admonition?:

    2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
    2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
    2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
    2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

    michael

    There is no difference between the middle and passive voice for this Greek perfect participle in Rom. 9:22, which has given rise to the "fitted themselves" argument, assuming the middle voice. Hartley (and White) rightly argue that the context demands translating it as "passive" -- "the objects of wrath prepared for destruction"

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